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Down the Memory Lane

H S Suhrawardy — as I Saw Him

by GM F Abdur Rob
I first saw MrHSSuhra
wardy in early 1058 I waa then a student of Karachi University. H S Suhrawardy used to live in Lakhan House in the Nomatoh area of Karachi city Along with few students of the Karachi University, I went to seek hts help In resolving some problems faced by East Pakistan students. I saw a con ftdent looking man with radiant face sitting among many people notable among them was Mr Abdul Latif Biswas. Mr Mahbubui Haque Chowdhury of Chittagong and other whom I can not recollect by names after so many years.
Wc told him about tntroduc ing quota for the admission of East Pakistan students to the University and accommodation of the Bangall students study ing in the University and colleges. He at once replied Why quota system to be Introduced in Karachi University. Is it also not your University? Are you a minority in Pakistan to intro ducc quota In Karachi University for admission? You are the majority and you must realise your share. Tel) the East Pakistan students to come in large number to be admitted to West Pakistani universities. Not only that tell the East Pakistani unemployed youths to come tn large numbers and seek employment here. "When I asked him where they will slay till they find employment. He turned to Mr Mahbubui Haque Chowdhury with a smile and said they will stay in the East Pakistani ministers' houses and share floor if necessary till they find a job." This may be mentioned that Mahbubui Haque Chowdhury, al a later time, sheltered many East Pakistani boys and helped them to obtain employment In Karachi. Such was the feeling of H S Suhrawardy for the Bangalees at that time.
One day when I went lo lakhan House, I found few East Pakistani boys sitting with him and discussing about celebrating "Nazrul JoyanU" in a befitting manner In Karachi. He told them why only Nazrul Joyant I to be celebrated, celebrate also "Robindar Joyonti." He could not pronounce "Rabindra Joyonti." Then he asked anybody who can sing "Jokhon parbey na more pacyer chtnnha act batey "
Although often he could not' pronounce some Bengali words but hts love for Bengali language and Bengali song was
Wc then feel the necessity of bringing in new ideas without us being directly identified as selling these ideas.
Wc have set up a unit within Grameen Bank, we call it 'SIDE': Studies, Innovation, Development and Experimentation. They go to the borrowers directly. While the bank Is giving you loan, they persuade them with better ideas.
Ideas can come from different sources, then become the borrower's. We are trying to link up with other organizations which have ideas of training facilities, without us taking responsibility of pushing that idea
Another way is the annual workshop in each branch where the centre chiefs get together for once a week. They talk about their successes and failures — they ii eracl. This is another learning process. We try to bring in people who they request. They tell us
again met him In London and It waa the last final meeting with him al the Conoway Hall" We never thought that would be our last meeting We accorded him a reception on his arrival in London after his release from jail in Pakistan. Myself as the joint secretary of Pakistan Youth Federation. Mr Syed Mahmud All son of famous Mr Syed Badruddoza Chowdhury of Calcutta, then president of the Pakistan Youth Federation and Barrister A R Yousuf. Barrister Moinul Haque and others accorded him a grand reception at the Conoway Hall Holbore Square. London. Begum Shaista Ekramullah. his son Sahed Suhrawardy also accompanied him at the reception.
He was weak and first refused lo attend the reception, but later on realising the en-lhu»l.mni and arrangement made in his honour, he agreed to be present. He came and delivered a short speech tn which he accused President Ayub Khan of continuing autocratic rule tn Pakistan. He was very critical of the people of Pakistan and particularly people of East Pakistan for watching and doing nothing to contribute to the fall of Ayub Khan's regime He uttered tn melancholy that at last the people of Vietnam took up arms to liberate but what we Bengali pcopk- do? "Wc are not even capable of taking up "Lathis" to oust Ayub Khan." He said, "I hope the Bengali people will realise one day of ihetr deprivation and take up "Lathis" to establish their rights. He left the place soon complaining of Illness.
Few days after, a shocking news came to us that our beloved leader Mr H S Suhrawardy died of heart attack at a Beirut Hospital. I felt we not only lost a politician, but a statesman, a guardian of democracy and an undaunted, uncompromising Bangali leader who will not be forgotten by us for ever. When the War of Liberation started tn 1971. 1 remembered and spoken to myself thal H S Suhrawardy would have been delighted (p 'fete Bengali bqya t taking up ariW Instead of "Lathis' td liberate their coun uy
May his soul rest In peace they would like to talk to a family planning person or something.
So if you can find something between yourselves that's fine. We cannot ensure that service will be available to you. because government machinery is very uncertain.
DS: I would like to go to the sixteen decisions you once mentioned: what are those? 1 attended one of your workshops and 1 saw that they bow and salute. What are the meanings behind these rituals?
MY: Rituals arc rituals. Because we belong to a particular segment of society. We all live with rituals In everyday life. We deliberately wanted lo be different. The
Rotary club has many rituals you don't notice them. Grameen Bank, all said and done, Is a lot of defiance. We defy things. To begin with, we defied the banking system. Then we defied the relationship between man and woman the way It existed In the village. Women are not supposed to speak loudly, but one of Grameen Bank's requirements Is that you should shout slogans so that the whole village can hear you. slogans. Physical exercises are part of Grameen Bank rituals. Village women are shy and they are usually unable to talk to you in an audible voice they can not look you in the face So we said we arc like your brothers, look at u* and talk person to person. Their salam has actually become a salute. Grameen members have to talk face lo face and took straight inlo your eyes and talk. It gives you a distinction. If a little boy gives you a salute you know that he -thongs to a Gramren Qank
Self respect, a, sense of dcntily, has been denied to poor people. We want to bring that back to them.
That sense I belong to a community, that I am a suc-cess. because from very childhood a poor person is told thal he is a failure, especially for the woman. who is brought up thinking herself as a bad woman or cause of misfortune for the family Wc try lo help her demonstrate that Is some bixfy
Sixteen decisions actually came from all those work shops. They go through tote of discussions and problems
The first lime in 82 in Madhupur I was summarising all the issues or problems they were discussing, suggestions and Ideas, throughout the week. Then wc wrote them down and made copies gave each one a copy so that they remember These became popularly known as 10 deci •tons of Madhupur workshop Then In 84 when we were having national workshops in Joydevpur they added more There was s long list. People can not remember long lists So I just stopped at sixteen We always start with our slogan — otkya. karma srinkhala aty amader path chala They were then known as the 16 decision adopted at Joydevpur work shop This establishes solldar “y
Gradually they became so popular that they memorized it. The list was getting longer and I said people won t read and remember them, so keep it short They don t read and •rt*c. to read these we have to keep someone who can read and this is a big hassle We slogans like we w« not line tn broken huts, ar will report them, we will not per dowry or ask for dowry etc Al first this became popularly known as the IO decisions of Madhupur workshop Later more were added and I said fat s keep Il si 16 since U will
OS I would like to have
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ate any development project according to that yardstick. If you say we are building a huge highway from Dinajpur to Dhaka and this Is our development project, my question will be — does it positively Impact the bottom 50%? If It does it is a development project: if it has zero contribution I would not call it a development project. If it has a negative impact on the bottom 50%, which it may. 1 will call it an anti development project. So if you are building a dam, a bridge, a power station — whatever, my first test is does it change the lives of the bottom 50% in a positive way? The contribution to that would be the coefficient of my selecting or not selecting one project over the other. If 1 have two projects both of which fall under this definition but 1 can finance only one, I will see which otte has a greater con-tributton to that section of the population. Most of the projects wc see in Bangladesh do .not do tfiis. This to because WVINT-^.y beginning we have not defined it that way. So this Is arc very Important thing for a country like
If you look for example, just the foreign income component in the last 21 years we have received 25 billion dollars. With that 25 billton dollars we have not put any positive Im print on the faces of the bot tom 50%. If there is an imprint It Is a negative one. The question to then why did we need that 25 billion dollars? For whose benefit? And then, if you really wanted to make use of this one simple and crude way perhaps, to just take the 2.2 billion dollars this year 1992 That's a tot of money. If we Just take that from Paris meetings and if we promise that it will reach the people and make sure it does then the safest way is to write a check to every poor family of the bottom 50 percent. 1 think every poor family can have a 500 taka check every month with 2 2 billton dollars.
DS. But you wouldn't be building bridges and roads
MY Well do we need that? You see wr have defined that whatever affects the poor peoples lives in a positive way is development. Building a bridge la not development, building roads to not devcl opn. nl Wc have lo agree that changing the lives of the bot torn 50% la development Now say I have a case I can build a bridge with say. 500 taka or I can give cash 500 taka. I will lake the one that directly and immediately impacts peoples lives so I U say I ll take the 500 taka
DS. So what wZ you do with the 500 taka?
MY I I buy a goat, or a cow. I ll do something. This 500 taka could be a Grameen Bank loan And who wants the bridge? Probably the bridge ac lually kills me because I used to ply the boat and be a boat man crossing people. Now the bnd^.. aw,y my
So this is the way I would like io look at it Maybe the bridge Is good for mt But bridge per sin does not make a development project If say you arc building an Interna ttonal airport and call tt a de vetopment project first you have lo tell me why you are calling tt that how many peo pfc^are being alletied and who
■faehman Sobhan L«d Hashem* Where did all the 25 billion dollars gs? Seventy five per
the —wy —a never
spent in the donor countries
on the consultants, experts, all the missions they have sent and the products they have sold you. Only twenty five per cent of the money was spent in this country. It went to the local consultants, engineers, contractors and officials. So now, how are you going to say that this is the development we got with this 25 billion dollars? For whose benefit have you used this 25 billion? My first request is, let’s sit down and find out what we are talking about, what is this development that we ought to change but wc don't because it benefits me and you? We almost feel thal if its good for me its good for the country.
DS: Well, I might say that if you build a road and create the facility for the villagers to bring their goods from one place to another and a bridge over which they walk, then tn the long run, I am also chang Ing the bottom 5096, because the villager will be bringing hts chicken from Tongi and selling U in Dhaka at a better
price. So U also relates to the question of productivity of land and when productivity of land is increased, would it not help the lives of the bottom 5096?
MY Well these are the sort of make belief stories wc have been telling ourselves for years— that somehow the bridge will do all these things But that bridge never helped the lives of the poor people.
The only thing it did to their lives is that they were pushed out of the land because somebody else found it attractive They lose their jobs be cause other people will push their goods So you are going back to the good old trickle down theory again which was rejected in the US. I am not against the bridge provided you can prove that this is a better way to improve the life of the people
The terms you used, in the tong run . to a very critical ex press ton In the tong run, as tt Is said by economists, you are dead
Now say you brought a power plant to generate elec tricity You claim that If there to electricity there will be industrialization The more In dustrialtoatton. the more peo pte will kx- absorrx-d tn the In dustry I s^ industrial Jobs do not alleviate poverty. You ere slaved for over a lifetime and remained poor. I cannot to** mi eef land with my family 1 haw to liw in your bustees. in slums, in sickness, that . not poverty alleviation Creating a
per ae to not poverty al«-vlatton
DS: A Job per se is not. But when I set up a paper mill tn Khulna and produce this paper I am able to give Jobs to 15,000 people. Shall I do without it? And Just give 500 taka per person and not have the Khulna paper mill?
MY: I am glad you ask this question. Suppose Khulna newsprint factory costs 100 million dollars.
You have two options: create Khulna paper mill industries and employ 5,000 people as staff. They earn their livelihood directly. And say another 5,000 indirectly, carrying things, supplying etc. So you have created 10,000 Jobs. If you accept self employment under the category of jobs, Grameen Bank lends out 15 million dollars every month and creates one million Jobs, one million families are reached. So if you have created a Grameen Bank in Khulna with 100 million you will probably be reaching out to millions. So you have a case of creating cither 10.000 jobs for
a 100 million dollars or one-million jobs for the xamc amount. If job creation is your interest.
That s al) I m saying, to weigh alternatives,
DS 1 am talkutg of creating Jobs and productivity oj the economy tn the same branch I must find a way of marrying two things or maybe more than two things. Creating infrastruc ture in the country, creating Jobs tn the country, raising the productivity of the economy. If I have these three pre-requt sites, then I believe Im on the right track for development
MY 1 agree. But the answer is different. Lets lake produc ttvlty With 100 mill ton dollars (a false figure), you created a paper mill in Khulna, a sick industry. You have to go on giv Ing subsidies to keep It alive, and you see productivity Is a big zero With 100 million dol tars on the other hand. I have reached a million families, re teasing the energy of thto mil lion. A tiny productivity increase in one millton people added together is much larger than whatever
sophisticated equipment you can put up with a 100 million dollars. That one million people, because of an Increase in Income, will want to have a second lungi each year So they will be asking for another lungi each year. So the lungi pro ducers will be producing one mtlbon extra iungto a year be cause of the increase In de mand
In your case it was only 10.000 families In this case it Wm one mil lion families asking
for more lungis — one million families, each asking for one new saree every year. You want to build up the base of the economy? This is how to do it. Build buying power.
Why are our industries sick today? Why is the inflation rate 4.5 today? Because the people are not buying anything. You have the Finance Minister saying this is good news. To me it is bad news. The economy is in a coma. If people had the purchasing power today, other people would be working to supply basic, simple things such as sarces, lungis, food etc. That is the basis of economy.
DS: But if people have money to buy, what are they going to buy f the economy does not produce?
MY: That's what l‘m saying. Today half of the handlooms are dead. OK. Let's move to another area of difficulties and problems — the problem of management, of honesty, of chain of command in every industry — identifying why docs an industry go sick. Once we
have tackled those problems and the productivity goes up, then the money you are putting Into hands of people — they will be able to buy the goods that we are talking about. Improve on these things go might ahead. But the focus should be on self employment. Feopte can do their own things and release their energy.
DS: From your experience with Grameen Hark would you say the approach should be self employment and thal should be the motor?
■ MY: Yes. Because other things you have complicated, your financial sector is collaps ing your industrial sector is sitting idle You have problems in management, labor prob terns, political problems. You have to fix all these things. But at the same time you must focus on addressing the vast human resource we have They must release their energies and contribute to the economy rather than become a liability Each liny bit contributed by the millions becomes a large contribution
So coming back to resource allocation, if you are really se rtous about development and If you agric with the definition I Kyou — helping the bottom
— if 1 am making any kind of economic plan, where will be my biggest allocation? The entire economic plan should be to change the fives of the bottom 50% And whatever is needed lo be done. If tt is setting up a paper mill only then Will I set up a paper mill. So the whole plan should be nothing but a poverty altevto tton plan.
First of all. no matter how you fulfil your long list of conditionalities and then you say industrialization will deliver the goods, how many jobs will you create? Figure that out. For each Job you have to invest at least a million taka. The more sophisticated it gets it will be even higher. But where is the number of people without Jobs?
Everyone now talks about poverty alleviation. But what Hem is alleviated? The ques-•kuLfa; al ihe jwLof DecStBbw 1992. how many people.will come but of this poverty.
DS: It is very difficult to explain poverty alleviation. What if say I employ 5 people — who had no Jobs. Am I contributing to poverty alleviation?
MY: It depends on who they are. Do they represent the bottom 50%? Landless population in the country is over 60%. These people you are talking of
2-3 bighas of land. There are people poorer than them. So if you have drawn the line at 50% then no. you have not reached those ^O%.
DS: But there is the fact that unemployment at the mid level does put a pressure on the bottom 5096, and the bottom 5096 and mid level over lap.
I do not believe that 7096 of all the grants and loans over the past 20 years have been all spent on donor countries and we have not achieved anything other than the remaining 2096. So what is the yardstick?
MY: 1 will reverse the question. Which one of the projects you have seen in Bangladesh for the last 21 years you think has contributed to the poverty alleviation? Just name one.
DS: What about electricity in rural areas? It has helped your borrowers for example, to work at night.
MY: These are all make believe stories. You cannot pinpoint anything. You say that tt helps our borrowers work at night. You have no idea about our borrowers. They don't even have homes. Forget about the electricity. You see we don't understand what poor people are, what poverty to.
If you build up on thal bot tom 50 per cent all the sick Industries will come to life again because people will be buying things. You know cosmetics has become such a big Ihlng because of the garment Industry. All these girls working tn the factories wanted lo wear lipstick so you had to produce a cheap lipstick and advertise it.
DS Would you like to tell us about your other projects such as your housing and fisheries project?
MY: On the housing side we've recognized that it is very Important for poor people to have houses. This to a new loan activity First we proposed a loan of 5000 taka so that people can have a tinned roof over their heads. We were opposed by housing experts because I hey were saying that It docs not add to the housing stock.
Anywav. we succeeded tn getting a loan from Bangladesh Bank for our borrowers. We made it to 7500 taka loan to complete a Un roof. Over time
the price increased and we bought it to 12,000 taka for concrete-pillars, one Un roof, one sanitary latrine. We've given more than 150,000 loans. IniUally we took the money from Bangladesh Bank. Later we also borrowed internationally.
We borrowed from Bangladesh Bank at 2 per cent and lent it for 5 per cent. Now it is 8 per cent for housing loans, and people pay us back over time tn weekly installments. Rate of return is over
Fisheries’: we were requested by the government to take over some of them. One particular project of the government was Nilgachi fisheries project. We had no idea how to run that but since at that time we were told that the project was falling apart, we could help them and improve the qualify of performance.
In the beginning we were told that during the government operaUon ft could produce about 50 tons of fish. We took over in 1986. Gradually we Increased it from 200 to 400 tons. Last year we had 500 tons of fish from this project. This year we are hoping to get 1000 tons. This is a complex of about 800 ponds. We are frying to increase the yield per pond per acre. This is a flood free year. Last year there were three floods in succession. So our production could not reach the level we would have wanted it to.
With that experience wc see that throughout Bangladesh, all the water bodies we have can produce a tremendous amount of fish. So we are helping our borrowers lo lease ponds lo grow more fish. This is another aspect of our project. We are planning to create a new foundation— Grameen Fisheries Foundation.
This is different from Grameen’s Krishi Foundation which works in the northern districts — greater Dinajpur. greater Rangpur areas. This started as a project of Grameen Bank. Wc took deep lubewells which were installed by the government under Saudi grant and a loan from Asian Development Bank (ADB). This was done to increase agricultural production.
We saw that no matter how much money was available to borrowers, the return to their loan became very small because the overall economy is at a dead stop or stagnating, and this is particularly visible in the northern districts. So wc tried to add to the economic possibilities. By strengthening the agricultural sector which provided opportunities to people to participate in more income generation Last year we had 30,000 acres under Grameen Krishi Foundation; this year we have 60,000 acres.
£Nc are also introducing maize in the area Maize is not produced in Bangladesh but it to a good crop and can be pro duccd here and earn cash returns for the farmer*. A tot of this land remains empty moat of the year unless the aman season comes which is the big season there. Even during the aman season ■ tot of land re-
mains idle. 6° we are cncour-' aging the farmers to grow maize.
Last year we did this on a trial basis with 190 acres of maize and it was a very good crop. So now we are moving to 2000 acres of maize which has already been planted. We are also introducing hybrid maize, the seeds of which wc imported from Thailand — wc are planting 8.5 million tons of hybrid seeds this year. We are expecting 5000 tons of maize from this operation and if this goes well Wc can expand maize cultivation.
Last year wc had about 300 acres of sugarcane under Grameen Krishi Foundation. This year because of the good results we have received we have expanded to 5000 acres. And almost half of our acreage is under thto new technique of raising sugarcane seedlings and planting it in a more systematic way.
Grameen is still Grameen. The foundation is involved in different sorts of activities. There are lots of tiny pieces of land which arc given as 'bandhak's to money lenders. Krishi Foundation comes forward and, if a Grameen mcm ber has such a tiny piece of land which he has given to a money lender, will release this land on behalf of the Grameen member and work out a deal that within 2 years of Joint operation of the land between Krishi Foundation and the member the land will go back to the original owner. If that works out within grameen membership we can expand It to beyond membership.
Then we have Introduced Soyabean. Northern districts have done soyabean. Wc have already prepared ourselves for 15000 tons of seed, of soyabean.
DS: One impression is that the whole success of Grameen Bank is because of your per sonality which is the drtvirk force. So U is too much linked with a person. Don't you think that U is an unhealthy sign that it should be identified with one person. What are you dotr^j to neutralize this personality cult?
MY That’s not really true People don’t know other names in Grameen Bank They Just know one name. But Grameen Bank has 12.000 staff This is almost like going to the banker's argument when wc succeeded in Tangail. who said, you work too much, that ■ why tt succeeded. Wc work in 30,000 Isolated villages in Bangladesh and it worRs because the guy there works of the system works. No matter how smart this guy Doctor Yunus is It will be Impossible for him to run the show atone.
It to not like one person Is sitting before a screen watching everybody. It to a system that functions.
And then that question has lost all validity when you see a Grameen programme works in Malaysia without Dr Yunus, tn Sabah without Dr Yunus 20 odd programmes atone work in the Philippines. You don't-see Dr. Yunus fingerprints overall these programmes.
DS: Thank you uery much Dr Yunus, far your time